07-15-2015, 04:16 AM
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2015, 04:19 AM by Blue_Dwarf.
Edit Reason: what have I done
)
Edit: Wall of text confirmed. It looked smaller in the editor, now I feel bad.
PseudoEdit: Well, this took way longer to type than I intended. I almost just deleted the whole thing multiple times because I'm not really sure of what I am trying to say, but I feel I need to voice my mind because this situation has made me deeply upset (though others are dancing in the streets, it seems, which makes me even more upset)
There are many points in this post which can be contended, which is in part why it is so long. As a whole, this post addresses most of these points of contention, so please refrain from reading a single portion and then immediately tearing in to me, as whatever you have to say I may already have responded to later in the post.
Anyway, here it is:
This is an upsetting situation for me.
I am having trouble finding the proper way to lay out my thoughts, so bear with me.
Given the recently (not so recently anymore. I've been at this way too long) provided context and information, I cannot say I back this decision, in particular I do not appreciate the way it was handled. (pibpib jokingly said I was next, though frankly after this I am not so sure I would be surprised if I was, especially after voicing my discontent here now. This most definitely feels like a betrayal and a slap in the face, and it didn't even happen to me!)
Fax kept this server alive and in order for a long time, and at the first hint of trouble you kick him to the curb with zero discussion.
Though apparently this wasn't the first hint of (recent) trouble.
Apparently others have privately (and recently) voiced complaints to you.
Complaints that you seem to have felt were best left unmentioned to the user they were issued against.
If it had just been this one instance and you deemed that enough, I could perhaps accept and publicly support the decision even if I personally disagree (which I do).
This, however, with the mention of others issuing complaints against him, is not acceptable to me.
It just blows my mind that you would allow Fax to continue unaware that players were legitimately complaining about his behavior, neglecting to give him the chance to acknowledge that fact and attempt to reform that behavior before it came to such an end.
While I am certain it could be said that players have complained directly to Fax in the past, I could not say that their complaints were ever leveled in a way that would not be considered as a continuation of a playful back-and-forth between what I am sure most would consider to be friends (well, I considered our users to be our friends. I may be mistaken). There's a difference between plainly asking somebody to stop doing something, and resisting their actions in a playful bashing manner (and continuing to bash them back on future occasions). If you do not voice your complaints and continue to simply play along (going as far as initiating confrontations yourself), then I do not think it is fair for you to expect the situation to change. As far as anyone else knows you are having fun doing a bit of roughhousing too.
That said, I know Fax has made mistakes in the past, and he can get riled up and act rashly, but in many such cases he has taken steps to make it right for the player, and it is 'rarely' (never that I have personally witnessed) simply based in "unprovoked harassment." It always starts with a rule violation, a complaint of one user against another, or a user being a dick/harassing another user (including Fax himself).
The exception to that I suppose would be attempts made to engage in RP behavior, which has recently been made abundantly clear to me that players absolutely want no part in on the standard world.
(I will be removing my spawners and mobs as I find them and crawl back into my dungeon in the northern swamplands, I apologize for any trouble I have caused anyone. Please alert me if you stumble upon any offending dark legion forces/spawners/command blocks. (note to person who knows who they are: this isn't about you, but your words have brought forth revelations about users no longer present in The Den))
I also know there has been lots of drama on the forums of old, but I myself have been the target of many a drama on the forums. The fact is, any active moderators will receive flak from users and be targeted by trouble makers no matter what. It just comes with the position.
That is not to say Fax hasn't been at the center of more drama, but I believe that is because unlike most other admins he felt he could interact with the players, that he could have his own city, that he could play by the same rules, though at the time I am referring to I believe he was simply a Moderator. (IE, a time NOT after the true RP world had risen, fallen, and been whisked away for further development, where Fax and I built godlike RP personae with the intention of one day driving global events in Safell, the RP world which has yet to come to fruition. That, I believe, changed things in that we both tried bringing those RP elements into the server as a whole, not just as part of Safell. As it would become clear(with this most recent 'happening'), those RP elements were definitely a bad idea and would be seen as a scourge by most of the server goers, leading to great amounts unvoiced discontent. Though Fax did a great many kind things for players under the ideals of his RP (referring to the entire time-span since Safell's redevelopment began), I suppose I would have to admit that he also terrorized players to some extent, namely those who would give him crap, which was apparently true discontent rather than playful bashing. I will not insist that certain players have enjoyed their experiences and interactions (battling a person RPing as a godlike being isn't really going to be the most fun thing to do), but I will say that I am doubtful Fax's actions were ever entirely unprovoked by his 'victims' in those such cases).
I am perhaps not a good person to judge the situation though. On the one hand, some of my own actions have apparently been abusive and unwanted so I am sorry for anyone who has been at the receiving end of any of my shenanigans, my RP was to be a villainous geo/necromancer, but this was never meant for the standard world nor was it appreciated there.
Then on the other hand (oh no, both hands are negative D:) I have not been the most active of late, and I do not know the full extent of the situation. I can not say I am entirely surprised something like this has happened given Fax's reputation and past issues, but I definitely do not feel that this was handled properly by any means, nor is it at all similar to any imagined scenario I had of how such events could possibly unfold.
I just don't feel good about this at all, Fax's sob story aside.
While I acknowledge that Twolf and Malice have full justification to do whatever they want as it is their server, I do not feel it is fair for them to arrive at such a conclusion without discussing it with the other admins (Fax Machine included) given their extended absences over the past years, and given the contributions of various admins (especially Fax Machine) to the server. I mean, you went as far as to acknowledge all of these things, but yet you chose the worst possible way to handle the situation.
At the very least, I feel Fax deserved to be confronted about this before actions were taken (at the bare-bones minimum, before it was made public that actions were taken). You know he is a reasonable adult, I don't see why you would take this approach of making a public spectacle of it before even talking to him. To me that shows a serious lack of respect, and is why I see this is more a slap in the face than a simple revocation of his permissions.
It makes me uncomfortable, and I feel as though I could be on the chopping block without even knowing it. Just one mistake away.
I'm going to stop typing now before I come to yet another conclusion and continue to ramble on about some other thing (or put my foot in mouth again). I can also sense Grumpy(sleepy)Dwarf starting to wake up, and I do not want that to seep into my post.
I guess if you needed a summary of my feelings on this, I'd say that I am not horrifically upset over what has happened essentially, more the how and the why of it (and in turn, the what, if that makes even a shred of sense).
I feel as though we have arrived at the worst possible of all conclusions, and that is why I have spent hours trying to put my jumbled thoughts into some sort of structure here. I'm both crushed and blown away by this. It's beyond words... but I tried to bridge that gap by using a great many words.
TL;DR:
I personally feel that a great mistake has been made here.
PseudoEdit: Well, this took way longer to type than I intended. I almost just deleted the whole thing multiple times because I'm not really sure of what I am trying to say, but I feel I need to voice my mind because this situation has made me deeply upset (though others are dancing in the streets, it seems, which makes me even more upset)
There are many points in this post which can be contended, which is in part why it is so long. As a whole, this post addresses most of these points of contention, so please refrain from reading a single portion and then immediately tearing in to me, as whatever you have to say I may already have responded to later in the post.
Anyway, here it is:
This is an upsetting situation for me.
I am having trouble finding the proper way to lay out my thoughts, so bear with me.
Given the recently (not so recently anymore. I've been at this way too long) provided context and information, I cannot say I back this decision, in particular I do not appreciate the way it was handled. (pibpib jokingly said I was next, though frankly after this I am not so sure I would be surprised if I was, especially after voicing my discontent here now. This most definitely feels like a betrayal and a slap in the face, and it didn't even happen to me!)
Fax kept this server alive and in order for a long time, and at the first hint of trouble you kick him to the curb with zero discussion.
Though apparently this wasn't the first hint of (recent) trouble.
Apparently others have privately (and recently) voiced complaints to you.
Complaints that you seem to have felt were best left unmentioned to the user they were issued against.
If it had just been this one instance and you deemed that enough, I could perhaps accept and publicly support the decision even if I personally disagree (which I do).
This, however, with the mention of others issuing complaints against him, is not acceptable to me.
It just blows my mind that you would allow Fax to continue unaware that players were legitimately complaining about his behavior, neglecting to give him the chance to acknowledge that fact and attempt to reform that behavior before it came to such an end.
While I am certain it could be said that players have complained directly to Fax in the past, I could not say that their complaints were ever leveled in a way that would not be considered as a continuation of a playful back-and-forth between what I am sure most would consider to be friends (well, I considered our users to be our friends. I may be mistaken). There's a difference between plainly asking somebody to stop doing something, and resisting their actions in a playful bashing manner (and continuing to bash them back on future occasions). If you do not voice your complaints and continue to simply play along (going as far as initiating confrontations yourself), then I do not think it is fair for you to expect the situation to change. As far as anyone else knows you are having fun doing a bit of roughhousing too.
That said, I know Fax has made mistakes in the past, and he can get riled up and act rashly, but in many such cases he has taken steps to make it right for the player, and it is 'rarely' (never that I have personally witnessed) simply based in "unprovoked harassment." It always starts with a rule violation, a complaint of one user against another, or a user being a dick/harassing another user (including Fax himself).
The exception to that I suppose would be attempts made to engage in RP behavior, which has recently been made abundantly clear to me that players absolutely want no part in on the standard world.
(I will be removing my spawners and mobs as I find them and crawl back into my dungeon in the northern swamplands, I apologize for any trouble I have caused anyone. Please alert me if you stumble upon any offending dark legion forces/spawners/command blocks. (note to person who knows who they are: this isn't about you, but your words have brought forth revelations about users no longer present in The Den))
I also know there has been lots of drama on the forums of old, but I myself have been the target of many a drama on the forums. The fact is, any active moderators will receive flak from users and be targeted by trouble makers no matter what. It just comes with the position.
That is not to say Fax hasn't been at the center of more drama, but I believe that is because unlike most other admins he felt he could interact with the players, that he could have his own city, that he could play by the same rules, though at the time I am referring to I believe he was simply a Moderator. (IE, a time NOT after the true RP world had risen, fallen, and been whisked away for further development, where Fax and I built godlike RP personae with the intention of one day driving global events in Safell, the RP world which has yet to come to fruition. That, I believe, changed things in that we both tried bringing those RP elements into the server as a whole, not just as part of Safell. As it would become clear(with this most recent 'happening'), those RP elements were definitely a bad idea and would be seen as a scourge by most of the server goers, leading to great amounts unvoiced discontent. Though Fax did a great many kind things for players under the ideals of his RP (referring to the entire time-span since Safell's redevelopment began), I suppose I would have to admit that he also terrorized players to some extent, namely those who would give him crap, which was apparently true discontent rather than playful bashing. I will not insist that certain players have enjoyed their experiences and interactions (battling a person RPing as a godlike being isn't really going to be the most fun thing to do), but I will say that I am doubtful Fax's actions were ever entirely unprovoked by his 'victims' in those such cases).
I am perhaps not a good person to judge the situation though. On the one hand, some of my own actions have apparently been abusive and unwanted so I am sorry for anyone who has been at the receiving end of any of my shenanigans, my RP was to be a villainous geo/necromancer, but this was never meant for the standard world nor was it appreciated there.
Then on the other hand (oh no, both hands are negative D:) I have not been the most active of late, and I do not know the full extent of the situation. I can not say I am entirely surprised something like this has happened given Fax's reputation and past issues, but I definitely do not feel that this was handled properly by any means, nor is it at all similar to any imagined scenario I had of how such events could possibly unfold.
I just don't feel good about this at all, Fax's sob story aside.
While I acknowledge that Twolf and Malice have full justification to do whatever they want as it is their server, I do not feel it is fair for them to arrive at such a conclusion without discussing it with the other admins (Fax Machine included) given their extended absences over the past years, and given the contributions of various admins (especially Fax Machine) to the server. I mean, you went as far as to acknowledge all of these things, but yet you chose the worst possible way to handle the situation.
At the very least, I feel Fax deserved to be confronted about this before actions were taken (at the bare-bones minimum, before it was made public that actions were taken). You know he is a reasonable adult, I don't see why you would take this approach of making a public spectacle of it before even talking to him. To me that shows a serious lack of respect, and is why I see this is more a slap in the face than a simple revocation of his permissions.
It makes me uncomfortable, and I feel as though I could be on the chopping block without even knowing it. Just one mistake away.
I'm going to stop typing now before I come to yet another conclusion and continue to ramble on about some other thing (or put my foot in mouth again). I can also sense Grumpy(sleepy)Dwarf starting to wake up, and I do not want that to seep into my post.
I guess if you needed a summary of my feelings on this, I'd say that I am not horrifically upset over what has happened essentially, more the how and the why of it (and in turn, the what, if that makes even a shred of sense).
I feel as though we have arrived at the worst possible of all conclusions, and that is why I have spent hours trying to put my jumbled thoughts into some sort of structure here. I'm both crushed and blown away by this. It's beyond words... but I tried to bridge that gap by using a great many words.
TL;DR:
I personally feel that a great mistake has been made here.
I'm a signature!
YEAH!
YEAH!
